Adventures in customer ethics

"RallyWrench" (rndlitebmw)
10/27/2016 at 13:52 • Filed to: cotomer sevis, shop

Something nice for your time, a ‘73 3.0CS that we’ve worked on for 30 years.

Now to today’s episode:

Car: 2005 530i, 86,000 miles, only seen it one time, last month, for a CEL/bad PCV hose. During our routine scan, a “Gear Monitoring” fault was found in the EGS/TCM, indicating a speed discrepancy between input and output speed sensors. This is almost never a fluke code and usually means the transmission is slipping in gear. We noted this at the time, but no further action was taken.

Customer : Yeah, I brought in my car a month ago, and I’m selling it. The guy wants to have it inspected or some shit, but I just did that! It’s golden, right?

Me : Looks like we just replaced a single PCV hose, there’s a note here about possible transmission issues, we recommended diagnostics and a fluid sample. We didn’t do a vehicle evaluation.

Customer : Is that on the copy?

Me : Yes.

Customer : Can you take it off for me?

Me : No.

Customer : You can’t just, like, take it off?

Me : No, that would be dishonest.

Customer : If the guy calls, can you just not tell him about it?

Me : No, I’m not going to misrepresent anything.

Customer : Ok, ok, can you just, like, tell him it’s nothing he has to do, like right now?

Me : No, look, it had a code stored that I have to document, it’s shifting ok but that code in particular usually means the transmission is slipping in gear, that’s an expensive problem, not something I’m going to hide.

Customer: ( various pouting), ok thanks, bye.

Why do people think shit like this is ok? I can’t count how many times people have asked me to lie about their car’s health for sale. Why the hell would I do that?

DISCUSSION (46)

HammerheadFistpunch > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 13:55

Codes before bros.

Matt Nichelson > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 13:56

Yet another reason we get a bad rep. I just wanna tell people like this to go by some other German car and leave us honest BMW owners alone.

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 14:05

Kinja'd!!!

RallyWrench > HammerheadFistpunch
10/27/2016 at 14:11

I’m stealing this. Though it would be, shall we say, the female equivalent of a bro in this case.

S65 > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 14:11

Why do people think shit like this is ok? I can’t count how many times people have asked me to lie about their car’s health for sale. Why the hell would I do that?

So they can sell it and be done with it, I think he knew something was wrong with it, so he wanted to dump it and buy something else ASAP

RallyWrench > Matt Nichelson
10/27/2016 at 14:16

I wish they would. I use my damn turn signal!

Jonee > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 14:18

People are such dicks. At least I know one shop I can trust. Now I’ll just have to convince any sellers that I need to drive up to San Luis Obispo for an inspection.

RallyWrench > S65
10/27/2016 at 14:18

Yeah, but why the hell ask me to conspire with them? That’s just low. It’s not my damn fault they bought a bad car, or that I’m telling them it’s broken.

shop-teacher > Matt Nichelson
10/27/2016 at 14:20

That reminds me of a tangentially related story. Years ago, in a discussion about vehicle maintenance, a woman who was part of the discussion said, “That’s why I got a German car, so I don’t have to deal with any of that crap.” She was talking about her Mark 2 or 3 (I don’t remember anymore) VW Golf. I’m still proud of myself for managing to not laugh in her face.

shop-teacher > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 14:21

Because many many people just plain suck. That person is one of them.

Matt Nichelson > shop-teacher
10/27/2016 at 14:23

And yet people like that crowd our roads every single day of the week. Taking Driver’s Ed in school and learning about a vehicle and how it works used to mean something. Very few care about that anymore, though.

shop-teacher > Matt Nichelson
10/27/2016 at 14:25

I don’t know, I hear my dad’s stories about being a mechanic back in the 70's ... I’m not convinced they ever cared.

RallyWrench > Jonee
10/27/2016 at 14:25

Appreciate that. This kind of shit drags me down. Hey, an extended road test won’t hurt with the kinds of cars we’re likely to look at.

Matt Nichelson > shop-teacher
10/27/2016 at 14:26

In some cases you are probably right. I just feel it was more prevalent then than it is now.

shop-teacher > Matt Nichelson
10/27/2016 at 14:26

Perhaps.

RallyWrench > shop-teacher
10/27/2016 at 14:30

That person and so, so many others. Honestly, the stress of dealing with people makes me want to go back to drinking during the week.

shop-teacher > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 14:51

I can understand that, but don’t let them get you!

Jonee > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 14:56

Totally. I like that drive, too. It’s a good one to really put something through its paces.

Tapas > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 15:11

There’s a reason people get cars inspected before buying them - because of that guy.

Fuck that guy.

RallyWrench > shop-teacher
10/27/2016 at 15:28

No worries on that front, but it’ll make the IPA taste all the better on the weekend.

RallyWrench > Tapas
10/27/2016 at 15:31

Fuck that guy, indeed. It always shocks me when someone comes in and says “I just bought this and want it checked out!” It’s hard to tell people they got the order wrong. Almost inevitably it’s a piece of shit, and I’m in the bad guy position of having to break their heart. Hate that.

RallyWrench > Jonee
10/27/2016 at 15:37

Yep, shitty traffic, high speed cruise, some twisties on 154 or the many back ways from 5 to the coast. You’ll find a car’s flaws for sure.

shop-teacher > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 15:39

No doubt!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 17:09

Completely off-topic, but since you clearly work in a shop that services older BMWs, I’ve got a quick question for you: what are your thoughts, if any, on the rod bearing issues that some (1-2%?) are seeing on the E9x M3? I have an ‘08 E90 with 95k miles (which I love), and I really like the idea of keeping this car long term. My Blackstone report around 80k looked good, and the engine’s making none of the noises associated with impending RB catastrophe. Although the tolerances are very tight, there doesn’t seem to be any definitive reason for these failures, leading some to believe it may have to do with improperly torqued bolts during assembly. But because there’s no sure cause, there’s also no sure solution... Have you personally run across these cars than have had engine failures, or heard from colleagues that may work in other shops? I’m considering going ahead and having them replaced as preventative maintenance at some point, but wonder if it’s something I should be doing at 100k, or if it can wait until 120 or even 150k. How would you proceed if it was your car?

Jobjoris > RallyWrench
10/27/2016 at 17:50

Well, you made somebody’s day. Good work. What a douchebag.

RallyWrench > Jobjoris
10/27/2016 at 18:32

I have no problem shutting people down like that so I feel ok, but it depresses me that people make this request so often. Not feeling so big on humanity at the moment.

RallyWrench > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/27/2016 at 19:19

I honestly don’t see many S65s, maybe 4 of them, and they seem to be really good engines thus far, though I don’t think we’ve seen one reach the 100k mark yet. I personally haven’t seen any problems with the engines themselves, I think one needed a throttle position sensor on one bank but that’s it. They’re certainly better than the S85 V10, those have been troublesome.

I think the rod bearing thing is made to sound worse than it is by internet hype, much like the VANOS issues or carbon deposits on the E39 M5s, for example. I probably see 20 of those, and two have needed VANOS solenoids, both well past 100k, as most of them are. The very early E46 M3s also were known for rod bearing problems in production, in fact a friend’s car ate 2 engines because both the original and replacement had come from the bad run, before BMW knew it was an issue. But it’s a problem that people still freak out about 15 years later. Porsche IMS bearings are the same way, the percentage of them that fail is pretty small, and it always happens to very specifically treated cars (low miles, sit a lot), but OH MY GOD THE M96 IS A HORRIBLE ENGINE THESE CARS ARE CRAP.

I suspect at least part of the issue in the E90's case is the long service intervals. I’ve seen 10-20k intervals create problems in lesser BMW engines in the long term, so I’m sure the mighty S65 is not immune to what amounts to the marketing department dictating service intervals. 15k oil changes get the car out of warranty and the “free service” package just fine, but BMW thoroughly does not care what happens after that. Based on what I’ve seen on the N5x and N62s, I’ve been recommending 7500 mile services for regular driving once the mileage gets up there a bit, and if I owned your car I’d probably do 5,000.

As far as preventative bearing replacement, since you do oil samples you’ll have warning if that’s necessary, and you’ll probably have to reseal the oil pan at some point, use that as an opportunity to pull a cap and check them if there’s no indications in the oil. Most owners aren’t as fastidious or proactive in their care as you are (I can count the number of customers I have who do oil evaluations on one hand), so I doubt you have anything to worry about in the short term. Yours is definitely a car worth keeping, the last N/A M3, how cool is that?

Tapas > RallyWrench
10/28/2016 at 00:57

Man it must suck to tell someone that they got screwed. But people really need to look into things that cost most of what they have, before they buy ‘em. I don’t know why that’s a hard concept.

Meanwhile, I still cant decide which shirt I want to buy in the mall and I just stand there for 15 minutes lol. How do people just buy a random car like that?

RallyWrench > shop-teacher
10/28/2016 at 01:00

That’s gold!

RallyWrench > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper
10/28/2016 at 01:02

Where did you find that clip of my daily routine?

RallyWrench > Tapas
10/28/2016 at 01:14

It’s beyond me, man. I had to do it today, a guy bought a 15 year old A6 a month ago, and it needs more than it’s worth in repairs. Cars are the second most expensive thing most people buy, how they could fail to do some basic homework on it, I’ll never understand. It explains why so many people are over car’d, all they see is a “nice” car for a selling price they can afford, but they don’t at all consider running costs or ask someone like me if maybe it’s a bad idea.

Tapas > RallyWrench
10/28/2016 at 01:36

Dude just bought a 15 yo Audi like that?! Wow

RallyWrench > Tapas
10/28/2016 at 01:39

Yeah, no joke. The front pump in the transmission is howling, the water pump and timing belt were incorrectly installed, and the alternator isn’t charging. Shitty phone call to make.

shop-teacher > RallyWrench
10/28/2016 at 03:15

Yeah, it was so amazingly perfect.

Jobjoris > RallyWrench
10/28/2016 at 03:50

The world is evil. No need to get depressed about it, fact of life. Even that douchebag is probably a decent father. It’s just money that makes people do devilish things. And women. And religion. ;-)

Tapas > RallyWrench
10/28/2016 at 09:09

Whoa....thats difficult to miss even if you dont get an inspection.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > RallyWrench
10/28/2016 at 09:54

Thanks for all the good words! I appreciate the detailed answer, and will take your advice to heart. 15k intervals are crazy, so I’ve been doing around 7500-10k. Will switch to 5-7.5k. Seems like I probably got one of the (many) good ones - a few have turned 200k with minor issues!

Last N/A M3, only V8 M3, last M3 w hydraulic rack, and mine is a 4-door and a manual. Less than 4000 like it in North America! =)

philipilihp > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/28/2016 at 10:33

Love your car. LOL

RallyWrench > Jobjoris
10/28/2016 at 10:34

It was a woman being the douchebag in this case! And I remember her seeming like a nice person when the car was here. Oh well. It’s a good thing we have beer! Weekend countdown commencing...

Jobjoris > RallyWrench
10/28/2016 at 10:37

Women and money are the most devilish combo. Don’t ask me how I know.

RallyWrench > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/28/2016 at 20:53

Keep on truckin’, you do that machine justice. Enjoy it!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > RallyWrench
10/28/2016 at 21:09

Thanks! Floggin’ it around NW Arkansas this weekend with a big group of S2000s. =)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > philipilihp
10/28/2016 at 21:11

Thanks! Me, too.

RallyWrench > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/28/2016 at 21:13

Nice! Show em’ what torque is :)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > RallyWrench
10/29/2016 at 21:58

Comes in handy! I’ve decided I have two S2k engines in my car: 2.0 x 2 = 4.0, revs to 8600 - ha!

CaptDale - is secretly British > RallyWrench
11/09/2016 at 18:45

Really? People do this? That surprises me, but then again I guess it really doesn’t.